Posted: 8/20/04

BWA must continue to defend human rights,
stand for freedom and justice, leaders insist

By Wendy Ryan

Baptist World Alliance

SEOUL, South Korea (ABP)–The Baptist World Alliance must continue in its role as defender of human rights, religious freedom and the separation of church and state around the world, BWA Executive Director Denton Lotz insisted.

“We must strengthen even more this ministry of the BWA,” Lotz said, as he announced plans that BWA will form a new division of freedom and justice to help not only monitor justice issues “but become more actively engaged with governments and international organizations in defending religious freedom and human rights for all people.”

During the BWA General Council meeting in Seoul, South Korea, global Baptist leaders heard reports of continuing human-rights violations, especially in the area of religious freedom.

The murder of a Baptist pastor in Tajikistan earlier this year–as well as the killing of hundreds of people in Nigeria, Indonesia, India and the Middle East because of religious conflicts–makes it imperative for Baptists “to present a united front, to protest to governments and to challenge international organizations such as the U.N. to defend religious freedom and human rights,” Lotz said.

Theo Angelov, general secretary of the European Baptist Federation, reported some improvements in the tensions that have existed between the Baptists and the Orthodox church in the Republic of Georgia, but he described the situation in Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan as alarming. Severe government restrictions, buttressed by new religion laws, make life difficult for the minority Baptist communities in those countries, he noted.

John Kok of the Malaysia Baptist Convention said it is against the law in Malaysia to witness to Muslims.

While there are no restrictions on Christian worship, he said, persecution comes when they apply for land on which to build churches. The convention, which counts 135 churches and more than 16,000 members, has set a goal to double its size in the next five years.

In Nepal, according to Baptist leader Yukta Man Gurung, Maoist rebels are demanding manpower from churches for the fight against the government and royal family. The constitution of this predominantly Buddhist nation does not provide for religious liberty, but the democratic elections of 1990 opened the way for some freedom.

Beginning in 2006, the Baptist World Alliance, which represents more than 48 million believers worldwide, will bestow annual Human Rights Awards. BWA already presents a Human Rights Award once every five years at its World Congress.

Posted: 8/20/04

Chosengirls ministry teaches teens the merits of modesty

By Sarah Farris

BGCT Summer Intern

KELLER–Society may say to young women, “If you've got it, flaunt it.” But directors of the Chosengirls ministry work to reverse that message by creating a culture of modesty among Hispanic girls.

“Style tells something about you that you might not really be inside,” said Elizabeth Encinia, Chosengirls creator, to young women at a Hispanic women's conference in Keller.

“People may see someone dressing in a grunge style and think they are sad and that everything is a downer,” Encinia said. On the other-hand, “a girl in short shorts and a small shirt may appear to be a boy chaser,” she said.

“We look at styles and say, 'How will that look?' We should ask, 'What would God think about this.'”

Chosengirls teaches teenage girls what modesty looks like on the inside and out.

“When you work on your purity inside–your mind and how you speak–that makes you beautiful, and when guys see that, looks are just an added bonus,” Encinia said.

She emphasized that young women should dress in a manner that will help their Christian brothers worship God.

As part of their ministry, members of the group have asked young men from their congregation, Hampton Place Baptist Church in Dallas, to speak candidly about the impact of young women's clothes on their visually oriented minds. One young man used the acronym M-O-D-E-S-T to illustrate the desire of dressing in a way that will not cause guys to stumble: “Manner of Dressing Equals Safe Thoughts.”

Teenage girls from Encinia's church modeled clothes in a fashion show that provided practical tips to mothers and teenagers on what clothes are “safe,” and what are not.

She explained that while girls see a cute skirt or cute blouse, guys see the skin exposed by it. When trying to explain a spaghetti-strap shirt, some guys told her: “All we see is skin. We don't even see that little strap.”

Encinia also advised girls that when looking at shirts or pants in a dressing room, they should be conscious of any lower back being exposed.

“The back is a very intimate part of your body,” she explained. While in the dressing room, it is the last time for you to see yourself; the rest of the time, it is the world seeing you, she stressed.

Chosengirls began when ministry creators realized girls in their church were all struggling to define modesty in their actions, dress and thoughts.

“Our moms teach us” about modesty, Encinia said about the group's leaders, “but many other's don't.”

All of the Chosengirls leaders are college students. “As big sisters, we need to help them,” she said. “We are mentored by older ladies, but who is mentoring the youth?”

The ministry hopes to build bridges between teens, college students and older women.

Chosengirls' first conference was at the Hispanic women's conference last year. Since then, the group has traveled to area youth groups, teaching about modest and purity.

Most importantly, Encinia said, the ministry teaches “beauty inside is never going to fade.”

Posted: 8/20/04

Democratic liaison to religious leaders
resigns after drawing fire from Right

By Robert Marus

ABP Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON (ABP)–The Democratic Party's first-ever liaison to religious leaders resigned only two weeks after she started, under fire from a conservative Catholic group for her opposition to the words “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Brenda Peterson, an ordained Disciples of Christ minister, resigned abruptly Aug. 4 as the Democratic National Committee's senior adviser for religious outreach.

Peterson resigned the same day stories in the conservative Washington Times and the Southern Baptist Convention's Baptist Press publicized charges that Peterson was anti-religious.

The charges were first leveled Aug. 2 by William Donohue, president of the New York-based Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. The group frequently has made headlines for criticizing politicians and groups it considers anti-Catholic.

In a three-day series of press releases attacking Peterson, Donohue noted she signed a friend-of-the-court brief along with other clergy members supporting Michael Newdow's case to remove the words “under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Earlier this year, the Supreme Court rejected Newdow's argument that he, as an atheist, had a right to prevent his daughter from being exposed to the words in her California public school. The court turned Newdow away on technical grounds and did not decide on his argument that the Constitution's ban on government establishment of religion prevented the pledge from being recited in public-school classrooms.

In his Aug. 2 release, Donohue, the Catholic leader, said the brief Peterson signed “shows infinitely more concern for the sensibilities of atheists like Newdow than it does for the 90 percent of Americans who believe in God.”

He also wondered if the leaders of the Democratic National Committee were “totally out of their minds” for hiring Peterson to conduct outreach to religious voters.

“Would they hire a gay basher to reach out to homosexuals?” he asked.

Peterson previously was director of the Clergy Leadership Network. The group formed late last year to rally progressive religious leaders to challenge the Religious Right and oppose many of President Bush's policies.

In a public statement released on her resignation, Peterson said she was not forced to resign but was quitting “because it is no longer possible for me to do my job effectively” after the controversy raised by the Catholic League.

The controversy came just days after Peterson organized a highly publicized “People of Faith Luncheon” at the Democratic National Convention in Boston and amidst a campaign by some Democrats to get their party's leaders to talk more openly about faith and its role in forming their positions on public policy.

Peterson's former boss at the Clergy Leadership Network, Al Pennybacker, criticized her attackers.

“This is a very small, splinter, unofficial Catholic group, and they're to the right of right. It fits in the pattern of attack that a number of extreme-right religious groups have pursued,” he said.

Pennybacker noted the friend-of-the-court brief Peterson was criticized for signing had argued that the government's use of rote religious phrases such as “under God” to solemnize public occasions amounts to trifling with religion. “The point in the amicus brief is that you've got to take religion seriously,” he said.

But Catholic League spokesman Louis Giovino discounted that argument, saying: “If you're taking out 'under God,' no matter what all the other stuff means, most people are going to take it to mean that you (want to) censor God.”

Posted: 8/20/04

Small church builds big sanctuary to house its pipe organ

By Jo Gray

Special to the Baptist Standard

FORESTBURG–When First Baptist Church of Forestburg decided to expand its building, members weren't just anticipating growth when they constructed a three-story, 6,700-square-foot sanctuary.

A smaller worship center with a lower ceiling would have been cheaper to build and less expensive to heat and cool. But it would not have housed the 700-pipe Wicks organ that John David Dill of Denton donated to the church.

Dill gave the pipe organ–built of parts he gathered himself–in memory of his grandfather, Lewis Eldridge, a former deacon at the church.

The congregation began an organ fund to help with installation and maintenance costs.

Dill's grandmother, Ruth Eldridge, provided funds for the electric relay, a necessary part of updating the instrument. Dill's godmother, the late Berrien Tinsley, purchased the swell shades.

Prior to the pipe organ being installed in the new structure, some adjustments had to be made to the original plans to improve acoustics, such a installing a wooden floor on the raised platform that houses the organ and building a solid ceiling instead of exposed beams.

“This is a great building,” Dill said. “There is no need for a microphone. The sound carries throughout the building.”

While the construction was going on, members of the Texas Baptist Men Builders set up camp in Forestburg. For two weeks, volunteers worked on the large structure. Once the back wall was nailed into place, they sawed a large rectangular opening in it to allow for installation of the organ's many various-sized pipes.

Dill's father and uncle helped him assemble the organ's parts, collected from Lutheran, Methodist and Baptist churches. Some were salvaged from a church fire.

Dill, a sales representative for Wicks Organ Company, sells, installs and services the musical instruments.

“Some people will think this (organ) is a Frankenstein. It isn't,” he said. “All the components came from the mid-1930s to mid-1940s. They were all built by the same company during the same period, so they balance. It blends very well.”

Once the parts were gathered, Dill and his father assembled the organ in his uncle's garage. The organ then was dismantled and reassembled on site in three days last April.

Clarice Merret of Bowie, a retired elementary teacher, serves as organist of the Forestburg church, but she willingly turns the position over to Dill when he is available.

Dill is organist for First Baptist Church of Denton. He earned bachelor of music education and bachelor of organ performance degrees from Baylor University and a master of organ performance degree from the University of North Texas.

He laments the declining number of church organists.

“Organ players come from piano players,” Dill said. “We have so few people learning piano today. Only 250 to 300 are studying organ at the collegiate level nationwide.”

Dill blames the lack of interest in organ music on the trend toward more contemporary music in churches.

But at Forestburg, as in other small community churches, the organ still is the backbone of the musical service.

And while the church built its sanctuary to accommodate the organ, it also is filling with new members.

Pastor Stewart Holloway, who came to the church a little more than a year ago, noted the church averages 90 to 100 people attending worship services on Sunday morning, and the congregation has added 20 new members since the construction of the new sanctuary.

Posted: 8/20/04

Speaker offers parents peacemaking tools,

principles for communicating with teenagers

By Sarah Farris

BGCT Summer Intern

KELLER–If teenagers cannot or will not hear their parents, they probably will ignore God when he calls them, a Dallas-area youth minister and evangelism consultant said.

“God is still calling sons and daughters. How will they hear God calling if they are not taught to hear their parents,” Gus Reyes, youth minister at Hampton Place Baptist Church in Dallas, told a Hispanic wom-en's conference, Celebrando la Mujer Hispana.

In the conference session, “Stop the Fighting! Seven Actions Parents Can Take to Bring Peace to their Homes,” he gave tips to parents on living out a biblical model of raising children.

“Implement an appeal process,” said Reyes, ethnic evangelism consultant with the Baptist General Convention of Texas. He drew on the Old Testament story of Esther, who appealed to the king not to kill the Jews. Bringing an appeal process into the home brings peace.

In Reyes' home, after an offending child is sentenced–no TV for a week, for example–the child can appeal by asking: “Dad, can we talk about this?” A lesser punishment can be negotiated later.

This takes the child's anger away from the disciplining parent and teaches the child how to deal with future bosses and a future spouse.

Reyes explained parents should understand that it may take awhile for the system to work. “It took my kids four years to figure it out,” he acknowledged.

He also said his children are not allowed to take advantage of the system. “They cannot use it four times a day,” he quipped, and sometimes a punishment is non-negotiable.

Along with learning to accept discipline, children must be taught how to “get right” with their parents.

“God helped us get right with him, so you must help your kids get right with you after they've been disciplined,” he said. Parents can do this by simply explaining to their children, “You're in trouble right now, and after you are punished, we will be OK again.”

“Remember,” he said, “your kids cannot hear God if they're mad at you.”

Reyes also emphasized the importance of parents taking on the role of coach.

“Kids do not understand the word 'parent,' because the parents on TV are dumb. They do understand the word 'coach,'” he said.

When one of his sons was young, he was interested in a girl at church. Reyes told his son: “I am an expert on your mom. If you want a woman like that, listen to me.”

He instructed his son to watch her at church–during worship, prayer and the message. “I knew he would do that anyway,” Reyes said, noting he instructed his son to watch how she worshipped God, how she prayed and how well she listened to the message.

By acting as a coach, Reyes began showing his son the attributes of a woman walking with the Lord.

Reyes recommends parents understand what he calls the “iceberg mentality.” The tip of the iceberg is all that can be seen. In teenagers, this includes clothes, music and attitude. The part that cannot be seen is what can sink a child, Reyes said. Below the iceberg is depression, anger, the effect of abuse–all underlying problems that affect what can be seen.

“Ask God to reveal what is wrong that is not visible,” he urged.

Parents should impart the idea of discipline as a blessing, Reyes said.

He and his wife adopted their sons when they were elementary-school age, and it was against the law for them to spank the children for a year. As new parents, they had to develop a creative form of punishment; an idea of push-ups evolved.

This proved to be effective, and as the boys grew, so did the amount of push-ups required for each offense. The boys now are teenagers, and they are starting to appreciate how muscular their arms and chests have become.

The Reyeses have a family Bible passage they use as a guide. The Scripture passage, 1 Peter 2:4-10, was passed down from Gus Reyes' father. The children take ownership in the verses, pretending to be upset when the pastor uses “their” Scripture in a sermon.

Along with a family Bible passage, family prayer is vital, Reyes said. “Many kids grow up and leave home having never had their parents pray verbally for them,” he said.

Parents also may need to change their personalities to teach their kids how to relate to God, Reyes said. That may mean a typically forgiving father must sometimes be stern, or vice versa, as the situation requires.

On one such occasion, Reyes' daughter observed, “I've never seen you like that, Dad.”

He responded, “You have never required me to be like that.”

Posted: 8/20/04

Parents should pray early, often for
children's salvation, consultant says

By Sarah Farris

BGCT Summer Intern

KELLER–Parents should begin praying for their children's salvation before the youngsters even understand right and wrong, a Texas Baptist women's evangelism consultant told a Hispanic women's convocation.

Debra Hochgraber and her husband, Dennis, pastor of Shiloh Terrace Baptist Church in Dallas, have prayed for their children their entire lives. And because they prayed the children would understand and be convicted of sin, God brought the children to a personal understanding of Christ at a young age, she said.

Hochgraber, Women Reaching Texas consultant with the Baptist General Convention of Texas, spoke on “Interceding for Our Children” at the annual Hispanic women's conference, Celebrando la Mujer Hispana, in Keller.

When her oldest daughter was 4 years old, Hochgraber worried the girl's love for her father and desire to please him could lead her to make a premature decision about accepting Christ, without knowing what it meant.

Her husband suggested that rather than praying for their daugheter to become a Christian, they pray specifically that she would be convicted of sin.

Hochgraber admits she was skeptical about the idea of a 4-year-old being convicted of sin. “What could she have done?” she asked.

One day, when the girl was still very young, she told her parents she had asked Jesus to come into her heart because she had done some bad things that needed to be erased. When pressed, she admitted she had hit the little boy next door and pinched her baby sister.

The little girl said she and God had talked and “everything is OK now.”

Hochgraber equipped mothers to pray for their children's salvation through personal testimony and seven prayer principles, based on “Praying the Heart of God” by Ted Elmore.

“Pray for the person by name, and pray specifically.” By understanding the things that make a child unique, parents can be better equipped to pray for them, she said.

“Pray for conviction.” Parents should pray the words of the Bible, she said. “When we pray God's will, he hears. So pray his words.” She offered John 16:8-11 as a good passage for praying for someone's salvation.

“Pray for spiritual blindness to be removed, and the enemy's strongholds to be demolished.” A stronghold, she said, is a pattern of thought, a value, a behavior or an ideology that sets itself in opposition to the will and word of God.

“Ask God to restrict the activity of the enemy in their life and soften their hearts toward the gospel.”

“Pray for ears to hear, faith to believe and the will to respond.”

“Pray for laborers to be sent to share the gospel.”

“Pray as God leads.”

Posted: 8/20/04

After 44 years of inner-city ministry,
Kube still prays: 'Here I am; use me'

By George Henson

Staff Writer

DALLAS–Delores Kube remembers arriving in Dallas at an underground train station: “My first thought when I reached street-level was, 'This sure is a clean city,' and coming from a background of the East Coast and Washington, D.C., it really struck me that way. My second thought was, 'God, here I am; use me.'”

Her desire hasn't changed since her arrival in Dallas in 1960 as a North American Mission Board summer missionary, and God has answered that short sentence prayer over and over again.

Kube retires Aug. 31 as director of community ministries at Cornerstone Baptist Church, an inner-city congregation near Fair Park in Dallas.

Cornerstone Baptist Church is within a few blocks of where Kube's ministry began more than four decades ago–in one of Dallas' most impoverished neighborhoods. Some things have improved; drugs are a little less prevalent, and investors have started trying to improve small pockets in the neighborhood. But the area has held on to many of its warts.

“The homelessness, the drugs, the prostitution, the poverty–all those things are still here, but I think there's a lot more hope in this neighborhood, and I think this church has a lot to do with that,” she said.

Kube is not one to take credit for the lives that have been redeemed in the neighborhood, although her eyes gleam when she talks of the teachers, missionaries, preachers and deacons who have grown up during her ministry.

“There were many others than myself who ministered to these people–there were pastors, Sunday school teachers, summer missionaries who came to help us and just a whole lot of people who God has brought here to minister–and they have all made a contribution to the lives of the people who live here,” she said.

She does admit, however, that staying in one community for so long has given her a special blessing.

“The Bible tells us of how some plant, some water and some harvest. When you do stay this long, you get to do all those things. I not only have gotten to plant the seeds, water those seeds, but in some cases be a part of the harvest as well, and that is really special.”

In some cases, with recent births, Kube has been able to minister to four generations. One of the deacons at Cornerstone was a boy she took to camp many years ago.

“I often hear, 'Miss Kube, do you know who I am?' Sometimes the answer is yes, but other times I have to be honest and say, 'Help me.' Some of those are lives that have turned out wonderfully, and sometimes not, but I love to see every one of them,” she said.

“They say that times when they were children involved in ministry were some of the best times of their lives.”

Kube describes her work during these 44 years as “part missions, part social work.” She has led ministries that helped families have enough to eat and clothes to wear, helped organize health clinics to meet the medical needs of the people living in the area, and provided literacy classes for adults and tutoring for children.

More recent ministries include a computer lab to help foster better job skills, a dental clinic and a myriad of other need-based outreaches. She also has led the Dallas Christian Women's Job Corps the last seven years.

Christian Women's Job Corps is a ministry of Woman's Missionary Union, designed to teach life skills to low-income women. Texas Baptists help to support the program through their gifts to the Mary Hill Davis Offering for Texas Missions.

Children have been a large part of the focus of Kube's ministry encompassing not only Sunday school and Vacation Bible School, but also numerous summer activities to keep them off the streets and in God's word.

While her love for the people of the community always has been evident, it also has been reciprocated, especially with the children.

The day in 1968 when an assassin's bullet felled Martin Luther King Jr. is a case in point. As one of the few white women serving in the community, she was unsure how families in the neighborhood would respond that day. A preschool girl stilled those fears–she walked up to her teacher, gave her a hug and said: “Miss Kube, I don't hate you. I love you.”

“It has been a journey where faith and trust have needed to be present, and God has been faithful through good times and bad. But as much as humanly possible, I have been able to know that this has been God's place for me,” she said.

But now she is preparing for a move to rural Missouri.

“Leaving is difficult, but going is exciting. When you're a Christian, life is always a journey, and I am excited about where this part is leading. I'm sure when I reach Adrian, Mo., I'll say the same thing as I did when I came to Dallas–'God, here I am; use me.' And he will.”

Posted: 8/20/04

Temple church believes God used
adversity to build renewed sense of unity

By John Hall

Texas Baptist Communications

TEMPLE–Eighteen months ago, Memorial Baptist Church of Temple was rocked to its foundation by a Valentine's Day bus accident that took the lives of several of the congregation's most devoted members.

But that foundation is faith in Christ, and it has since provided a launching pad for unity, ministry and growth, said Pastor Roy Parker.

Following the accident, the congregation has come together in a unity that cannot be matched in many churches, Parker said. Members clung to each other and their faith to pull them through the pain, some of which continues today.

The outpouring of concern and prayer from Christians worldwide strengthened the congregation, the pastor said. God's Spirit brought the church together as never before.

“The power and presence of God was absolutely phenomenal,” he said.

The congregation felt a need to find facilities that would better suit its needs and size and voted to move from the site it used more than 50 years.

The church voted to use $1.1 million left by a deceased former member in conjunction with the congregation's United We Build fund-raising drive. Several church members made substantial contributions toward a project totaling more than $4 million.

Still, the church was slightly short on funding but remained committed to moving into the new building debt free, Parker said. During one of the last business meetings about the effort, a member stood and pledged $500 beyond what he already had promised and urged others to do so as well. Shortly after, several members donated large gifts to the project.

The congregation further pledged to raise the remaining $300,000 needed to complete the project. By mid-July, the church had raised $100,000.

In 2003, the congregation handed the older facility's keys to a Grace Temple Ministries, an African-American church. Memorial staff led the first half of a Sunday morning worship service before turning it over to leaders of the new church–symbolically starting a new chapter for both ministries. Grace Temple recently sponsored a block party that attracted more than 500 people.

“We were hoping and praying that it would continue to be a lighthouse” in the community, Parker said. “And it is.”

As they await their new building, Memorial members worship in an elementary school on Sunday mornings and use the facilities of Meadow Oak Baptist Church for Thursday and Sunday night activities. Through it all, Parker has not heard a “single negative comment.”

“The spirit of the people is tremendous,” he said.

The happenings at the church serve as continuous reminders of the greatness of God, Parker said. As the congregation moves toward its new facilities on a hill along the south side of town, the pastor looks for the congregation to continue glorifying God's name.

“From the time of the terrible bus tragedy on Feb. 14, 2003, when eight people lost their lives and over 30 were injured up to this very day and for all the days to come, the people across this area have seen and will continue to see the graciousness of the Almighty God to this beloved church,” he said.

Posted: 8/20/04

Houston church see pews packed
again after it disbands, donates facility

By John Hall

Texas Baptist Communications

HOUSTON–A church building where pews were packed with people in decades past is now full of new life because of a “kingdom mindset.”

Hundreds of people once filled Riverview Baptist Church near downtown Houston, but attendance declined as years passed, until 40 remaining members of the congregation were struggling just to keep the church financially afloat.

Pastor Troy Winslett chose to become bivocational last year to help the church remain open, but Riverview's financial issues continued.

Membership no longer matched the culture of the community and was struggling to engage neighborhood residents.

The area has become home predominantly to Hispanics, many of whom speak little English, but Riverview remained a largely English-speaking Anglo congregation.

The church was convinced a Baptist congregation needed to remain in the area, but members felt they could not serve the community effectively, Winslett said. The congregation decided it would be best to give its facilities to Iglesia Bautista Shalom, a growing Hispanic assembly in the area.

By disbanding and giving its facilities to Shalom, Riverview saved the Hispanic congregation thousands of dollars while maintaining a Baptist presence. They worked with David Guel, consultant for the Baptist General Convention of Texas Church Multiplication Center, to help the transfer take place smoothly.

“We wanted the church to remain a Great Commission church,” Winslett said, emphasizing Christ's charge for Christians to spread the gospel.

The offer of the facilities came as a surprise to Iglesia Bautista Shalom, Pastor Joe Castillo said.

Members were praying for a permanent place of worship but did not expect a congregation to hand over its buildings.

“It was from out of the sky,” Castillo said. “We never thought this could happen.

“We still haven't touched the ground yet. Are we dreaming or what?”

About 250 people attended Shalom's first service in its new buildings. Several Riverview members shed tears of joy as they saw a large crowd in their sanctuary.

Nearly 180 people turned out for a recent Vacation Bible School. Four families who sent their children to the event came to the worship service the next Sunday.

Some Riverview members joined Shalom, and the Hispanic congregation intentionally tried to integrate Riverview leaders into the church's activities. Riverview members have worked to fit in with the new way of handling church.

“It seems like every step of the way, people were led by the Lord,” Castillo said. “People were just asking, 'Where can I help?'”

Shalom now has two services–one in English, one in Spanish–and has seen people profess Christ as Lord in each service.

Winslett may not have a pastorate any longer, but he believes the actions of Riverview can serve as an example for other dwindling churches, noting there are 60 in Houston alone. Pastors need to find ways to expand the kingdom of God–even if it means giving up their churches, he insisted.

“If the work is not going anywhere, they need to figure out how to make it go,” he said.